kyoski wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 6:41 am
guerre_1121 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 6:28 am
(Only some of?) The fixed relics from the Small Jar Bazaar are unsellable, and presumably have some flag that marks them as such. As mentioned earlier while the chance of FS regulating this is small, you probably should not edit these for online play out of an abundance of caution.
I strongly suspect there are rules as to what combinations are allowed - across ~200 relic drops I've never seen more than one character-specific trait on a single relic, even for the same character, and there may be some other guidelines like "Partial HP Restoration upon Post-Damage Attacks" only ever showing up in slot 1. Hopefully these can be derived by examining regulation.bin.
I need to look more into smithbox, but there's some combinations I'm sure you can't have, like:
Physical damage +2
Improved Dagger Attack Power
Improved Attack Power with 3+ Daggers Equipped
There's some sort of group ID they're a part of most likely that allows you to only roll one of them in any of the 3 spots, so for the next table it rolls with those ones out of the equation.
That said, iirc you can see multi-stat relics like:
Vigor +3
Strength +3
Dexterity +3
but the chances of rolling that are incredibly astronomically low based off the tables weights, there's just a lot of junk/trash effects and most of the good ones have incredibly low chances (as low as 10%)
I'm not sure if table 300 is picked first, then 200, then 100, but the relic structures for tier 1, 2, and 3 look like this:
Tier 1
100
tier 2
200
100
Tier 3:
300
200
100
and the weights for the same skill can differ per table, so something might be more likely to get in table 300 than 200 or 100.
If you're willing to help me by comparing notes...
My understanding is the following:
- The possible effects and weights for roll tables are defined in AttachEffectTableParam.
- There are 8 sets, from 1000000, 1001000 ... to 1007000. Each set is separated into 3 tables with different weights used in different relic tiers, so e.g. 1000000, 1000001, 1000002.
- Which tables effects are rolled from for a given relic is determined via the attachEffectTableId_# fields in EquipParamAntique.
- 1-slot relics roll their only effect from table 100#000, 2 slot relics additionally roll an effect from table 100#001, 3 slot relics further additionally roll an effect from 100#002.
- Doing a quick diff within one of the sets, while weights vary by table, the set of available effects is the same across all tables. Further, no effect has weight lower than 10. However there is an unknown flag that is either 0 or 1 that could be an enable/disable toggle.
- Weight is relative, not absolute percentiles or anything like that.
- Loosely speaking, "lower-power" effects like stat boosts have higher weights on the higher tables (000 -> 001 -> 002). "Rare" effects like HP/FP restoration have the same low weight in all tables and are therefore relatively less common on the higher tables.
I have not analyzed how exactly e.g. 1000000 differs from 1001000, and so forth. There are definitely differences between sets but would need to visualize it to draw any conclusions as to high level patterns and purpose. If I were to guess, since there are 8 sets, they are either for what class you're playing as or which Nightlord you're fighting. I lean towards the latter since the weights for character-specific effects don't seem to obviously be grouped by class.
You mention seeing group IDs, where have you found those? I'm looking for groupings as well - for example, I assume that things like "Starting armament deals <type> damage" or "Changes compatible armament's skill to <skill> at start of expedition" are each in their own exclusive groups as they never show up together on the same relic. But I have yet to find anything that seems relevant - no field in AttachEffectParam or EquipParamAntique seems relevant when comparing between/within assumed groups. This would be valuable for knowing what effect combinations are illegal, beyond the obvious ones like starting armament skill or damage type. For example can the same relic roll both Improved fist attack power AND HP restoration on fist attacks?
From this we can speculate the following:
- For each roll table set, EquipParamAntique defines relics of all colors. And as the available effects don't differ between the tables (only their weights), and no effect has 0 weight chance, this implies that no effects are color-restricted. Even if the unknown flag mentioned earlier is actually an enable/disable toggle this is still likely true, unless e.g. some set/color relations are defined in params but not actually used ingame, or have additional logic regarding their usage that is not visible in params.
- Given that e.g. character specific traits are only ever seen in slot 1, probably the way that multislot relic rolls work is that first we roll from table A, then from table B, then from table C, but then the effects are sorted when placed into the slots on the relics, so it is not the case that slot 1 corresponds to table A and slot 2 corresponds to table B etc.
- I observe the "rare" effects to be relatively more common on relics with higher slot numbers. I think this implies something about the order of the rolls on multislot relics but I need to reason through it in more detail since it's actually not directionally clear what conclusion to draw.
Of course, everything is assuming that the rules are solely defined in params, there could very well be additional logic not visible in params, e.g. checks during generation to restrict specific effects to specific colors.
