Clarifications about Patreon

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SunBeam
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Clarifications about Patreon

Post by SunBeam »

Hello everyone.

Decided I'd post this, so my intentions are clearly understood. What the Patreon stuff in my signature means, how it works and why I have it in the first place. Reason I do this is there are several users who judge everything that any table maker here does and they get $ out of it, putting this in the same bucket with selling trainers, CH and other sites that do this.

First up, I've been here for quite a while now, not only posting tables, but also sharing a lot of my knowledge. Heck, most of the tables are based on that knowledge -- that said, IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO READ, you can re-create my table from scratch for a single game -- but who has the time to read, right?

Secondly, I've mentioned this several times and you've noticed how I roll: I post the table, I update it 1-2-3 times here on FRF, then as updates unfold and I finish the game, I don't keep track anymore. So there are a lot of "can you please update" posts in topics containing my tables that have not been answered. Why? Well, new users, no time to read, not caring, etc. However, regarding the last bit, if you don't care, you then shouldn't emit assumptions and act like this user here and here. Although you're entitled to judge how you like, I'd kindly ask that you do the modicum and ASK FIRST. You'll see I will explain everything and no one has to engage in some flaming war. My short answer there has this reasoning behind it: if the user didn't care as much as asking how things work and jumped to conclusions, so will I respond in the same manner, not caring and posting whatever crosses my mind. Seems fair enough.

Now, on to Patreon: why, how.

There have been quite a few games I've made tables for across the years. For most I've kept track with the updates, if not 1-2-3, then every 2-3 months (e.g.: Borderlands 3 and many others). I've gotten to a point where my real life (job), personal life (time) and doing these updates -- all in 24h -- has become tricky, eating my health (hours spent at night) and ultimately undoable. A few people who've been appreciating my work for quite a while now have asked "what if you provide these updates to only those who ask for? when they ask for them? these updates won't happen every day and you can also get people to support you". That got me thinking, I talked to several acquaintances in the field and they've recommended Patreon. "Why not also get a modicum amount for your work?" And that's how the Patreon service came to be.

Patreon: how I work.

Will start by saying I won't stop posting tables (with full options) for free. But, as the paragraph above mentions, I will stop updating them after a while. Why? Let me enumerate the reasons:
  • there are 72391273812 games I made tables for, meaning I have to always have installed 72391273812 games on my disks; I don't have that much space ( "you should buy larger storage" -- oh yeah, on whose account and money? :) )
  • because of the above, I'd need to frequently uninstall titles and install others (some are 80-100 GB big, so that takes time)
  • am I motivated enough to do the above for 1 person asking for a table update? of course I'm not, so this is a service (YOU want ME to do the above and take care of the update; it's my business and job how I get the game, how much time I spend installing/testing/etc. -- you just get the end result)
If you try to do bullet 1 and 2 for a long period of time -- how I did it in the past, for free -- it becomes a chore and you end up wondering why you do it. I've long finished those games the updates are requested for, so why bother spending MY TIME updating a table just cuz some (new) user asks for it? I believe it should work with reciprocity: give to get and vice-versa.

Patreon: how it works.

Once I am done with a game and won't publicly post updates -- IF YOU WANT (so this is a choice you'd have to think about and make, not an obligation) -- you can subscribe to the Updates Tier in my Patreon and ask for a table update. Clarifications:
  • the table has to be a table I created (the service applies to MY TABLES not other people's; so if you have some game, an old table from Csimbi, for example, and want it updated, I won't do it)
  • the service applies to ALL TABLES I'VE EVER CREATED, which you want actuality for (the most frequent statement I read is "10$ for 1 game? fuck off"; no, it's for ALL THE TABLES I've made; that you're interested in only 1 game, that's your business)
  • you get access to my personal Discord server where others who are supporting my work socialize and interact with me, getting info, articles, links, help etc.
  • unlike what the user whose posts I mentioned atop said, I respond and come up with solutions/help very fast; so talking your problem out live with me is a plus, I'd say
Just so it's very clear: you get the ability to request as many table updates out of the ones I've already created you want, I update them, you get to use the updated tables. There's no limit, if the game updates 10 times during your subscription period, I update it 10 times. Also, you can download already updated tables for other games you might play, as this service doesn't focus on 1 single game, like I said.

What else you need to know: you can unsubscribe any time, no one forces you to be someplace more than you want to. However, when you do that, you will lose access to my Discord server and future updates. That's all.

Short version of the above, if not interested in reading the whole stuff: I can't keep up with all the games and their updates, having them all installed on my disks and posting table updates whenever 1 user wants that. For motivation and a reason "why I do this", there's the Patreon service which gives you the possibility to request a table update (from the tables I, myself, have created) for the GAMES (plural, not 1 game) you play. The subscription is a monthly one, not a per game type, time in which you get access to ALL of the tables that I've updated/maintained so far. That's what I'd like people to understand. I'm not in the selling trainers/tables business, I'm just offering a service for just MY tables (so not looking at anyone's tables, not taking in requests for new games, etc.) to those INTERESTED. If you're not interested, I'd kindly ask you to keep your opinions to yourself as to why I do what I do and how.

Best regards,
SunBeam

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Csimbi
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Re: Clarifications about Patreon

Post by Csimbi »

I suppose it becomes inevitable at some point in one's life to draw a line in the sand.
I was always wondering where you found the time and energy for everything you do.
I begun noticing I have less and less time to do what I want, years ago.
There's so much I'd like to do but there is only so little time...
Was very different without family, work, family, work and family and work.
Things change and we all hope it's for the better.
Nobody - not even Patreon - will compensate you for the time you took away from the family, and family is the best investment, ever.

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Re: Clarifications about Patreon

Post by STN »

Sun, I don't know what you think you will achieve with this thread, honestly it just feels useless. You are not going to convince people like him by providing reasons why you are doing things a certain way. In my experience, I can't count how many people had active premium subscriptions to competing sites but will absolutely not give anything to this community. Just do what you do, some will understand, others won't. Discussing this is a futile exercise.

That said, I want to say I personally don't really like how this is increasingly become common for contributors to withhold their contribution and paywall it - that is not how I envisioned FRF to be - but I have allowed it because their work, their choice what they do with it. What I absolutely don't want is people abusing FRF, using it as just an advertising ground and providing no value to the community. Give respect to the place you are profiting off of and provide some value to the user.

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Re: Clarifications about Patreon

Post by SunBeam »

This post was about me. Not about FRF. If that's a problem going forward, considering I do post stuff for free here but stop with the updates after a while and do it only if motivated to, then I will just stop posting tables altogether. FRF gets nothing, I get nothing. Not gonna advertise it anymore, will remove it from signature, etc. and will slowly disappear from all of this.

Just say the word.

What I get from this post is visibility and it being written in text, so others can't bitch later that "I didn't know". Plus I get to copy-paste this link whenever and wherever some new ICEMAN thinks they know the deal.

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Re: Clarifications about Patreon

Post by Csimbi »

I don't think it's going to stop people from begging though.
I think there should be a "we do this for fun and to learn, without expectations to please anyone with the results" type of logo with big, friendly letters on the homepage ;-)
With emphasis on no expectation to please.
If you like it, yei, if you don't, well, time for you to contribute one way or another.
The problem is not specific to SunBeam, I think we all face the same music more or less on a daily basis.

My 666th post - no pun intended.

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Re: Clarifications about Patreon

Post by SunBeam »

Backing it up for posterity :D :D :D

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