Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

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kantoboy69
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Re: Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

Post by kantoboy69 »

Wahahahahahaha

Nothing beats cheat engine
It's been around half my life :p

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Re: Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

Post by kurapicas »

BreathTaken wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:18 pm
Soo let me get this straight.. You are not making money off of the application, you're not selling it on your site.. It's free to download. Why not release the source? 2-3 years of work is not going to be appreciated if you're not transparent about the work. Certainly least appreciative of whom will be your community of followers. Also as a note, and no I'm not saying to do something because someone else does, but heck your only competition practices code transparency! So what I'm saying is that's the community you're dealing with.

I do not understand the mentality of holding your code from others. It hinders innovation on all sides. That is probably the biggest point I want to make. You're hurting yourself by not putting the source out there.
I mean A lot of Software Free Products out there do not release their source code..
If I remember CE was not even open-sourced back then. It was only released because people think it was trojan virus (I maybe wrong) But I am 100% CE was not open-sourced, because I used it back then in 2000 or 2001? Diablo 1/Diablo 2 (Infinite HP).

I think, I can understand if you work on your own project for 2+ years. I don't think you can just let it go easily and let people copy your stuff and compile it and rename it.

Let just be positive about it and see the outcome of his work in another year..

As for OP (Original Poster/Topic Starter).
- I think its better to remove any Internet connection on your apps (Remove updater). As of today you know its not safe to download exe files anymore (even anti-virus cant protect your system).
- Also You should not compare tools to another. People think your trying to claim that your tool is better than another tool (Yes I see it that way). You could had just said "CTS - A Memory Scanner/Debugger" no need to put another product name for competition.

Sorry my English isn't good.

H4x0rBattie
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Re: Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

Post by H4x0rBattie »

kantoboy69 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:01 pm
Wahahahahahaha

Nothing beats cheat engine
It's been around half my life :p
Are you sure about that? "Tools->Dissect code" takes about 26min with CE on my end. This routine is also single threaded in IDA PRO. And it takes "forever" on game that can corrupt the logic in IDA PRO. And now...

With HEX DEREF it's at least 10 times faster on a 12-core AMD Ryzen 5 3600X vs CE. Imagine you was working on game that rebases on each launch.

Accept - Restless And Wild

Something being around for a long time does not mean necessarily it's the ultimate solution because you do not know about private projects, or do you?

For instance they released all of a sudden Chidra (abused by the goverment money) I personally haven't had time to try that out yet but I heard it's not that good good for game executables. I tried everything else I found by the search engines. Whatever I found those tools were lucking of features. I tried to improve everything to reduce the time wasted.

I would say CE has been #1 tool for game hacking but after I release HEX DEREF: [Link] that thing is about to change.

I've a LOT of good stuff and improvements like above coming but I never discuss beforehand about anything that is not yet properly implemented.

For instance the debugger is now pretty much CE equivalent (VEH is also implemented in C++ with GUI) and it's more user-friendly because you can browse register values with a click of mouse button in one of the most advanced memory viewer ever released that can read the process memory real time, and the view will get restored according to "what" it was after you restart the process. Yes this is the feature of ReClass but still as I referred to on the official site. I needed to add the most important features.

Go and code your own implementation that differs and provide it to me if it's so simple.

There are many bugs in ReClass builds... Some of you tried to refer that it was developed back in year bla bla bla. It was in fact but did you ever though of that someone was here before you was ever born?

Basically I should not even release the tool because none of you did not even bothered to say "Hi" on the official site.
Last edited by H4x0rBattie on Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:03 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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Re: Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

Post by H4x0rBattie »

kurapicas wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:29 am
BreathTaken wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:18 pm
Soo let me get this straight.. You are not making money off of the application, you're not selling it on your site.. It's free to download. Why not release the source? 2-3 years of work is not going to be appreciated if you're not transparent about the work. Certainly least appreciative of whom will be your community of followers. Also as a note, and no I'm not saying to do something because someone else does, but heck your only competition practices code transparency! So what I'm saying is that's the community you're dealing with.

I do not understand the mentality of holding your code from others. It hinders innovation on all sides. That is probably the biggest point I want to make. You're hurting yourself by not putting the source out there.
I mean A lot of Software Free Products out there do not release their source code..
If I remember CE was not even open-sourced back then. It was only released because people think it was trojan virus (I maybe wrong) But I am 100% CE was not open-sourced, because I used it back then in 2000 or 2001? Diablo 1/Diablo 2 (Infinite HP).

I think, I can understand if you work on your own project for 2+ years. I don't think you can just let it go easily and let people copy your stuff and compile it and rename it.

Let just be positive about it and see the outcome of his work in another year..

As for OP (Original Poster/Topic Starter).
- I think its better to remove any Internet connection on your apps (Remove updater). As of today you know its not safe to download exe files anymore (even anti-virus cant protect your system).
- Also You should not compare tools to another. People think your trying to claim that your tool is better than another tool (Yes I see it that way). You could had just said "CTS - A Memory Scanner/Debugger" no need to put another product name for competition.

Sorry my English isn't good.
You will understand the mentality after you work on something at least 6 hours every day for over 4 years like I've done on the tool. I barely even received "Hi's" on the official site and you expect me to release the source code just like that. The time I wasted with plain Googling and reading articles in terms of learning should be charged for over 10k USD, easily.

My plan is to make the tool also suitable for malware analysis. Not only for PC game reversing. As I wrote on the official site [Link]

I am coding a competitive product to IDA PRO x64 version. That's why I will not release the full source code. But hopefully you can expect in a near future CE equivalent free version that is a lot more user-friendly. But there is no guarantee for anything as neither you nor I know exactly what tomorrow will exactly bring.

About the mentality. I think everyone is just too used to leech Photoshop's and IDA PRO's and they expect to receive everything for free. Streets are cold and there is no mercy. I am not saying that I am any better than any of you BUT as a point.

Why you're not you using CE's source code? I tried but I can barely read 0.5% of Pascal code. I needed to figure everything out by myself. Sometimes a lot of trial and error. Why you're not using ReClass.NET source code? Github is full of source codes. Why you're not using then all!? You do not learn coding by copy/pasting. You learn it by coding.

What do I get for releasing the source code? I checked ReClass.NET Git, barely none contributed. .NET port of ReClass is not even finished.

>I think, I can understand if you work on your own project for 2+ years. I don't think you can just let it go easily and let people copy >your stuff and compile it and rename it.

That is the issue. I was thinking about posting the full source on a private Github so every know will know it was me who owns the source code copyright 100%. The source is a lot more properly documented vs CE source and it's mainly .NET! We cannot even compare Lazarus IDE vs VS2017+ in the same decade in terms of convenience. Only Dark Byte can code tools like that in Pascal. None else does. No offense of course but that's the fact.

I've worked on the project since 06/2016 if I remember correctly (over 4 years at least 6 hours/day average) Sometimes I work over 12 hours per day on the project depending on the mood. Donations will not cover the efforts as the plain coding works costs easily over 100k USD.

If I was to release the source. It's all about good will but I need to earn my living somehow. I am unemployed in 3 months...

If any of you think that you're advanced enough to contribute towards the project. Then PM me. I know reversing basics and as I learn I add new features. Yes I know how to make the tool IDA PRO equivalent but kernel level features are very time consuming.

As reference:
IDAPROCW IDA Pro Computer License [Windows] 1879 USD
IDAPROFW IDA Pro Floating License [Windows] 2819 USD
Plain x64 version. Now that if we wanted to have the pseudo code decompiler plugin for 64-bit games:
HEXX64FW x64 Decompiler Floating License [Windows] 3944 USD
HEXX64W x64 Decompiler Fixed License [Windows] 2629 USD
As a minimum of 4,5k USD. That's a lot of money. I hope you guys know now why I rather not release the full source. Anyway it will take "some" time to implement mentioned features. I am starting off from the PRO version. If you think you got the skill. Feel free to PM me. You must be able to produce professional video tutorials and your reverse engineer skills must be better or equivalent to mine. And of course your must be able to code well in C++ in order to write equivalent pseudo code decompiler.

A quick test indicated that at least version of IDA PRO I used in this test were missing a result or two that came to the code XREF's. IDA's initial analysis gets stuck with some of processes that are using tricks. That was not the case with HEX DEREF at first glance.

As all of you have figured by now. I've renamed the tool to a new name as it is more suitable. Regardless. Thank you for having an ability to link the official site of the tool. UC does not allow this. Therefore I will not upload the tool there.

HEX DEREF <= the time wasted reduced to 1/10.

Everything in short. Fanitism is an idiotsim. There is always room for an improvement.

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Re: Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

Post by jgoemat »

koderkrazy wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:17 pm
Frenchie, post: 52357, member: 19639 wrote:What memory tools are missing are multiple search windows. You could give each search a "tab".
As a workaround. you can attach multiple cheat engines to single game exe at a time.
I think you're missing what Frenchie wants, if I understand it correctly. I've wanted the same thing but couldn't figure out a good way to do it or have time to work on the CE code to add it.

In many games it's easy to find things like let's say health and stamina. In others it's not. I can't remember one for instance right now because I usually don't waste my time with them. But it would be useful I think to be able to compare with memory scans where you can't narrow down the list. Say you have about 1,000 values that might be health and 10,000 values that might be stamina. If you could somehow merge these two lists to group those values within a defined offset range, that would be handy. I.e. just filter out addresses in each list that aren't within 0x200 bytes of an entry in the other list.

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Re: Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

Post by LeFiXER »

I think you have not heeded Sunbeam's warning. It's easy to take criticism personally especially when it is something you put your time and energy into so much. I always welcome new tools as no single tool can cater the market for everyone. It's one of the very reasons competition exists, because some tools are better for certain people than others. Make no mistake, do your research and make sure 110% that you are true to your claims. There have been several memory scanning tools over the years. As other members here have pointed out. Cheat'o'matic being one of the first, WinHack, T-Search, Memory Hacking Software, CrySearch, ArtMoney. There literally have been so many.

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Re: Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

Post by H4x0rBattie »

This project is superseded by the HEX DEREF: [Link] That's the reason there has not been any update to CTS in the past year.

I will open a new thread as soon as I release the first "official" version. The currently available-to-download version includes only a DLL injector and a benchmark.

It is easy just to list a tool but everyone seems to miss the most important thing: What is the difference to Cheat Engine? [Link]
I always welcome new tools as no single tool can cater the market for everyone
How came? They're waiting for the moon from the sky. HEX DEREF is like (IDA HOME | Cheat Engine core functionality | x64dbg simplified | ReClass.NET++) And I work on the tool 12/7/365.

The changelog is massive as I haven't updated CTS for over a year. I try to post it on the official site ASAP.

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Re: Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

Post by LeFiXER »

H4x0rBattie wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:11 am
This project is superseded by the HEX DEREF: [Link] That's the reason there has not been any update to CTS in the past year.

I will open a new thread as soon as I release the first "official" version. The currently available-to-download version includes only a DLL injector and a benchmark.

It is easy just to list a tool but everyone seems to miss the most important thing: What is the difference to Cheat Engine? [Link]

The changelog is massive as I haven't updated CTS for over a year. I try to post it on the official site ASAP.
Initially they all start out as simple memory scanners and many haven't been updated for years that is true, but there are tools out there that have. I am by no means knocking your efforts at all, but Cheat Engine is fully-fledged and most of all free. You have plans to sell HEX DEREF and from a business perspective, what can your tool offer that free tools can't? Granted, you may have to use several tools to achieve the same level of functionality but they're free.

I downloaded the free version to test and would like to give my input. I am not biased in any way like I have mentioned before I welcome more tools; however, I feel that the UI takes up a large amount of screen estate that isn't really required. The window isn't resizeable either. I have tried to explain some of my feedback in this screenshot.

[Link]

Your tool can't scan x86 processes so why not filter all x86 processes and show only x64?
None of the menu items work (should be disabled if they're not ready for testing)

On the settings window you have a save button that appears on three of the tabbed pages out of four. Can I ask why you don't have just one that is set just below the page control and set the visibility to false on tabbed pages that do not require the save button?

Furthermore, upon selecting a game within the process list. There is no feedback that HEX DEREF has access to the selected process but upon scanning it appeared to do nothing.

The only thing that worked was the benchmark.
H4x0rBattie wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:11 am
...
How came? They're waiting for the moon from the sky. HEX DEREF is like (IDA HOME | Cheat Engine core functionality | x64dbg simplified | ReClass.NET++) And I work on the tool 12/7/365.
I'm not sure what you mean by "They're waiting for the moon from the sky." but x64dbg is also a fully-fledged tool that can be used for game hacking and is in active development, IDA is in active development too but costs a substantial amount of money, ReClass.NET is also free and is in active development.

I don't think you should be in direct competition with any tools listed but complement them by providing a tool that can match functionality, but better.

I hope you take my feedback as constructive criticism and not an offence to the level of effort put into the software, but as a means to improve upon your tool.
Last edited by LeFiXER on Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

Post by H4x0rBattie »

As you quoted:

The currently available-to-download version of HEX DEREF includes only a DLL injector and a benchmark.

The other features are "locked" for a reason because I am currently doing bug fixes/testing so that everything will be as mature as possible on the first public release. If you want to help in terms of testing. I am looking for someone who knows reverse engineering basics and whose primary spoken language is english.

I am not associated with Hex Rays in any way but I've been using IDA PRO for several years.

HEX DEREF free "Dump strings tool" vs IDA PRO (IDAPROCW IDA Pro Computer License [Windows] 1879 USD):

Image

You can also dump strings from MEM_PRIVATE which is important also in terms of game reversing. How do you do that with ReClass.NET or x64dbg? As far as I tested x64dbg. It was only able to dump strings from the code references. HEX DEREF does it all more convenient way and faster as I will soon post an introduction video.

The memory viewer in HEX DEREF is not only outright better version of CE's (Dissect data/structures) but also a LOT better version of ReClass.NET memory viewer.

Image

Now that you've seen a screenshot of the memory viewer. You can notice that you can change the alignment on the fly including "4 Bytes" which is the same as 32-bit support.

HEX DEREF already got kind of 32-bit support but the logic need to be added to the scanner as well. 32-bit support is in TODO list but I've other features as well that I want to add. No ETA but hopefully in a month I can release the first version with the memory viewer etc.

Nothing can be added fast because there are over 50k lines of code in the tool. A simple logic issue can some times take several hours to spot/fix.

There is no memory viewer equivalent to what is in the HEX DEREF. And I will show in the introduction video soon what do I exactly mean by that.

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Re: Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

Post by LeFiXER »

By no means, my words are not meant to cause offence in any way so I apologise if they caused you any offence. I look forward to seeing it in action for sure. I would be willing to help you test the program if you so wish. I am native English and have basic reverse engineering knowledge.

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Re: Cheat Tool Set - A tool like CE

Post by TheyCallMeTim13 »

H4x0rBattie wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:29 pm
...the debugger is now pretty much CE equivalent...one of the most advanced memory viewer ever released...
Well at least this seems like a nice complement for DB.
H4x0rBattie wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:29 pm
...
Basically I should not even release the tool because none of you did not even bothered to say "Hi" on the official site.
H4x0rBattie wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:11 am
...The currently available-to-download version includes only a DLL injector and a benchmark. ...
Typically you need to have a reason for traffic to come to your site. Like a tool or key features that other sites don't have. If your site is just a blog or forum, then what is going to generate traffic if you only release a tool with a couple of features?
H4x0rBattie wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:01 pm
...I barely even received "Hi's" on the official site and you expect me to release the source code just like that. ...
...
About the mentality. I think everyone is just too used to leech Photoshop's and IDA PRO's and they expect to receive everything for free. Streets are cold and there is no mercy. I am not saying that I am any better than any of you BUT as a point.
...
You might want to at least find someone with an active YouTube channel or something and setup something with them to feature the tool. Being mad that no one says hi on your site really won't help matters. And a again it's a tool that currently only has a couple of features, so what's going to bring in the traffic?
H4x0rBattie wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:01 pm
...
Why you're not you using CE's source code? I tried but I can barely read 0.5% of Pascal code. ...
...Only Dark Byte can code tools like that in Pascal. None else does. ...
Pascal/Object Pascal is actually a pretty popular one to use. And many people can code in Pascal. I mean if you prefer something else that's fine but to say no one but BD can code is Pascal is foolish at best. Hell, there are games/engines written in Pascal.
H4x0rBattie wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:01 pm
...I was thinking about posting the full source on a private Github so every know will know it was me who owns the source code copyright 100%....
If you want any footing in a legal sense you should really do this, you can keep it private. Bitbucket is also a popular one that allows unlimited private repositories, I use it all the time for personal projects.
H4x0rBattie wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:01 pm
...Donations will not cover the efforts as the plain coding works costs easily over 100k USD. ...
Building donors can take years, and right now the tool only has a couple of feature and there are other options that have proven themselves for years. If you're really looking to make money on this you might want to gear towards it being a debugger for developers as well. Reversing and debugging are closely related but there will be certain features developers will expect in a debugger. The real money is in making it something companies need or will use.
H4x0rBattie wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:01 pm
...
If I was to release the source. It's all about good will but I need to earn my living somehow. I am unemployed in 3 months...
Sorry to hear that, working on open source projects is a decent way of networking. But at the end of the day you're developing a tool to mostly be used by "hackers" and a love of open source is just a part of the culture. You can still charge for dedicated support and even pretested EXEs. But just know, most hackers will want to see the code. And you might actually get others helping to code some of it. DB is the primary developer for CE, but he's not the only one. And asking people to PM you to help with the project isn't really the best route, most people will want to see what they might be getting into before committing to anything; like the saying goes "look before you leap".
H4x0rBattie wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:01 pm
...
As reference:
IDAPROCW IDA Pro Computer License [Windows] 1879 USD
IDAPROFW IDA Pro Floating License [Windows] 2819 USD
Plain x64 version. Now that if we wanted to have the pseudo code decompiler plugin for 64-bit games:
HEXX64FW x64 Decompiler Floating License [Windows] 3944 USD
HEXX64W x64 Decompiler Fixed License [Windows] 2629 USD
As a minimum of 4,5k USD. ...
H4x0rBattie wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:11 am
...HEX DEREF is like (IDA HOME | Cheat Engine core functionality | x64dbg simplified | ReClass.NET++)...
Most reversers/game hackers tend to hack/pirate the expensive tools, it's a sad truth but a truth nonetheless. I see more hackers willing to make donations but not willing to pay a licencing fee. Plus for some it's something that the company they work for is who buys it. And the HOME version is like 365 USD, and you say your self it's equivalent to the home version. Also keep in mind the price for IDA has increased as more and more features were added, it wasn't always these kinds of prices.


I mean, I wish you the best of luck and all. But never underestimate how important it is to understand and cater to the culture you plan to sell your product in. Failing to do so has been the folly of many companies, and I would really like to see your tool do well. But at any rate, good luck and I hope to see the reveal video.

And feel free to start a new topic if you want, maybe add a link to the end of this one (and even on the first post wouldn't be a bad idea) and PM me and I'll close this one if you want.

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