Promoting payed cheats.

Alsigard

Novice Cheater
Mar 13, 2017
15
0
1
#1
Title says it all, Cheat Engine was always free and relied on good people making contributions to great cause. I’m a long time lurker who registered approximately 2 years after discovering old CE forum, hell even I made a few cheat tables for people who needed help back on old forum.

Today we starting to face great problem, so called “semi free cheats”, this people basically want to make us pay for something that was always free, destroy one of the pillars CE community stands upon and transform little by little this site in shithappens.com where they sell so called “premium cheats”.
ColonelRVH post_id=3237 time=1490931968 user_id=712 said:
Those comments disregarded the fact that i still release all the "basic" cheats for free.
Back in the day shithappens.com also provided “basic cheats” where there was 1 or 2 simple cheats and to get another 20 you need to pay for upgrade to premium member, sounds familiar?

Recently CE community suffered a hit from without which basically led us all here, now we face a very subtle threat from within which in time will either kill this community or transform it into something you won’t recognize.

What I’m basically saying here people should not be allowed to promote payed cheats on this forum. Want to grab some cash go and make your own project/site/new game hacking program and don’t poison our nice community.

Curios what other people have to say about this, and I know this post was kind of long, so If you made all the way here something funny and on topic just for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPXOvNKdvUw
 

++METHOS

Expert Cheater
Mar 2, 2017
202
1
18
#2
Alsigard post_id=3438 time=1491052617 user_id=1126 said:
What I’m basically saying here people should not be allowed to promote payed cheats on this forum.
-Where do you see paid cheats being promoted on this site?

Anyway, CE community will never change; there will always be table/trainer makers that will freely share their work and help others.
 

Alsigard

Novice Cheater
Mar 13, 2017
15
0
1
#3
Here.
http://fearlessrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=694
ColonelRVH post_id=2383 time=1490194407 user_id=712 said:
- Public Version not includes -
Set All Bullets (No Reload)
Max Sacred Branch
Unity Gauge Always Max
Weapon Gauge Always Max
Weapon Charge Always Max
Black Smith Ignore Materials Requirement
Order Food Ignore Materials Requirement
Food Boosts Effect Unlimited
Shrine Effect Unlimited
Get Equipment ID
Get Mitama Base Address
Mitama Boost Proficiency Max
 

ColonelRVH

Expert Cheater
Table Maker
Mar 6, 2017
334
11
18
#5
I have nothing more to say on this matter and i still keep helping other people in that topic.

If the final judgment is made, i will comply.
 

STN

Pleb
Staff member
Administrator
Mar 2, 2017
3,104
102
63
#6
I am glad you posted this, i noticed that thread and wanted everyone to chip in with their opinions on the matter including other admins so we can decide together.

Here are my thoughts, i completely understand your concern but i think it's a bit exaggerated and the comparison unfair. This place is and will always be run by the community, anyone can post their own free table with far better cheats in that same thread or in a new thread, you can see after my post in that thread that others continued and posted their own contributions.

Paid cheats were allowed on CEF even and that didn't change anything, those who do this for free still did. I can tell you if it was any other game that was popular, either Recifense or Cielos or Shinkansen or any of the other popular table makers would have posted their own contribution and people would have skipped right past ColonelRVH post. I would have posted my own table if it was a game i liked but if it puts your mind at ease, i'll post one now...it will still probably have less cheats than Colonel which is why i let his post live, he shared all the cheats you can find in usual trainers and asked for monetary help for the very advanced ones. I didn't think it was any different than MAF except his approach is a little aggressive.

The site you're comparing it to always had a paid membership before trainers and then just one person posting cheats, it isn't like that here and if it became like that, it wouldn't survive.

So yeah, that's what i am thinking. I am going to see what other admins have to say including Eric (i hope they all chip in) but my guess is they think the same way.
 

seronis

Novice Cheater
Mar 29, 2017
20
0
1
#7
What exactly is wrong with trying to make a living providing a service people use? I come here because I want to find cheat tables. That means ALL cheat tables. If 'tables' subforum needs split into 'paid tables' and 'free tables' sub forums im fine with that but its really STUPID to say they shouldnt exist when some people appreciate their existence. And it should be quite obvious some people appreciate their existence because no one would keep charging unless people were paying. Thats how free market works.
 
Mar 28, 2017
11
0
1
#8
I disagree paying for cheats.
Like the other person said, I just don't want another shithappens.com too.
Money is not everything, albeit money has a important role to play in a world like this. However it is not just money that makes everything work but it is also the determination of people to accomplish the task. Many big demonstrations that have happened in the world did not solely take place through money.
 

Alsigard

Novice Cheater
Mar 13, 2017
15
0
1
#9
Wanted to add few things.

First MAF is actually free website you can donate if you want but it’s optional, there is no “Pay wall aka premium cheats”. Just register and download all you want.

Second maybe I’m not that good with code, but I’m pretty good with people. That being said allowing paid cheats sends wrong message. Why should Recifense (or any other creator) post his VERY advanced cheats for free when some guy earns $117 a month while doing same thing. As example you should look up what happened when Steam monetized Skyrim mods in the workshop. Where half of mods I use would’ve cost me at least 1500$.

In my opinion if somebody wants to sell cheats and the guy in question is closer to Caliber then to Omoe (Antifun) for charging money to use them. Should make their own website and provide his cheats to his donators/patrons/kick starters etc.
 

CyberD3m0n

Expert Cheater
Mar 13, 2017
57
0
6
#10
I'm no fan of paid cheats and I guess that won't change, however I respect the work that goes into making a really great trainer. It takes hours and hours, even days for some games and some people really raised the "art of cheating" ((dis)assembler stuff however can be used for so much more than simple cheating) to a whole new level. I've seen what some of you can do and do on a daily basis and I'm humbled by that - and also encouraged to learn more, as some of you really share your knowledge, which is also greatly appreciated!

I'll always share my stuff on here if I think its okayish enough,I'm still a fucking noob however I think my tables have been getting better over time. Everyone has the right to decide what to do with their "IP", even if it is a cheat. If someone provides his findings for free, I'll have some more respect for her/him. If the person decides against it, I will still respect the time and thought power invested into it.
 

++METHOS

Expert Cheater
Mar 2, 2017
202
1
18
#11
Personally, I do not care if people want to charge money for their work. If people are willing to pay for it, then more power to them. I am not a gamer, so I do not have any need for this stuff, and even if I did, I can just create my own.

That said, I believe that there is a place for paid cheats, just not here at FRF or at CEF. The culture of CE has always been: give and share freely. If I see someone trying to push premium stuff on CEF, for example, I am annoyed by that.

If people want to include a paypal link for donations in their signature or something, then I do not see a problem with that (good luck to them) -- although, I think it would be cool to set it up so that half of the money goes to CE.

If people want to include a link in their signature that leads to their site with a description that lets people know that they can get more advanced cheats for a small premium, I am even okay with that...but only after they have proven themselves to be a helpful member of the forum and are not just here for self-promotion.

But, at the end of the day, it is not really my choice.
 
Apr 2, 2017
35
0
6
#12
People don't owe their work to others, so if they want to charge for it let them. If they don't want to charge, let them do that. I got annoyed by lack of freedom to change values in tables from the bigger uploaders and learned how to do some stuff to make my own. So if you have a problem with someone charging, you can do something similar, as someone mentioned, and create your own for free. My only problem would be if the admins pushed for one or the other. From what I've read, that won't ever be the case so nothing really to fear.

I also had some of my work, a mod parodying the ESA, recently pulled from a forum because of a bunch of complainers annoying the admins, and that left a bad taste in my mouth for use of power. So make of it what you will.
 

Eric

Administrator
Administrator
Mar 2, 2017
44
16
8
#13
On forum.cheatengine.org you could also post demo trainers for paid versions, but there where some rules

1: No time/run limited trainers.
2: If the full trainer has GodMode then the demo version MUST have that as well. Any other options (like unlimited ammo etc...) can be made paid if you like
3: On cheat requests, if the person asking he wants a table, do NOT advertise your paid trainer. Only do so if he asks specifically for a trainer. (Free trainers can always reply as well)
And if the person asks for a free trainer explicitly, I bet you know what that means...
4: Trainer links must point to the exe/archive directly, NO download pages like ad.fly. (Although an exemption is made for some places like mega and fileupload services)
5: No fucking microtransactions in trainers. I haven't seen that yet, but you can bet this shit is coming

as for selling tables, I guess rule 2 and 3 can also apply
 
Apr 2, 2017
35
0
6
#14
Those are logical and clearly laid out. I'd have no problem having a trainer pulled under those.
 

Alsigard

Novice Cheater
Mar 13, 2017
15
0
1
#15
There’s a reason it applied to trainers only probably.

CE license says it’s a free program, so first of all he should contact Darkbyte for commercial use approval, because he actually makes money from his program. Because it’s obviously table not a trainer.
 
Apr 2, 2017
35
0
6
#16
You going to have everyone who uses Photoshop to draw get permission from Adobe? Everyone who writes using Notepad get permission from Microsoft? Ideas like that are why we have this mess with Cheat Engine in the first place.
Dark Byte chooses to give away his work rather than lock it behind a paywall, that's great of him. Other people aren't as generous and choose not to.
 

Alsigard

Novice Cheater
Mar 13, 2017
15
0
1
#17
Adobe Photoshop CC is obviously not free and costs and costs 29.99$ a month. While CE is free it actually has license agreement.

Also on the “free spirit” note Asure Software creator of jpg format sued hundreds of companies for millions of dollars back in 2002.

CT. file format was made by Darkbyte and is inseparable from CE itself therefore it is a part of his program. More so only one program in the world uses CT. format and states that’s its free. CE license agreement clearly says “You may not rent, lease or sell this program”.

So to sum it up basically what you suggest if I add a few lines of my code to anything it automatically becomes mine and I can sell/resell it.
++METHOS post_id=3504 time=1491104732 user_id=54 said:
I think it would be cool to set it up so that half of the money goes to CE.
I agree on this with ++METHOS he should take permission from Darkbyte for commercial use and transfer a part of his revenue from selling tables or any other alternative that Darkbyte suggests.

Or just use trainers like everyone else does.
 
Apr 2, 2017
35
0
6
#18
One, Dark Byte has an installer free version that has no license agreement when using. Two, CT isn't only used by Cheat Engine(and I'm almost positive that even if it was Dark Byte hasn't registered a copyright for it). Three, it's only a text file with another extension that Cheat Engine is designed to recognize and as far as I can tell it uses xml code. Dark Byte can register a copyright of the code structure and send CNDs and/or sue for damages if he likes. Until then it's free for anyone to use.

Four, what does photoshop charging for their product or Asure Software suing over ownership of JPEG have to do with requiring their permission for anything you make with it, as you suggested doing with Cheat Engine?

Five, you can agree with whatever you like, this thread is about opinions over blocking or allowing paid trainers on this site. I'm against blanket bans of paid content(which has been brought up was against Dark Byte's policy on his forums since he allowed them) but have no problem with the rules brought up earlier to control advertising. It'd be great if Dark Byte got a cut from it but that's not the world we live in. As I said, your suggestion is no different from what's caused this situation that has Dark Byte banning cheats from his forum.
 

Alsigard

Novice Cheater
Mar 13, 2017
15
0
1
#19
SinStar87 post_id=3688 time=1491197643 user_id=1910 said:
One, Dark Byte has an installer free version that has no license agreement when using.
Source code Darkbyte provides does not have license agreement too. So If I type “Hello world” somewhere in there I can sell CE?
SinStar87 post_id=3688 time=1491197643 user_id=1910 said:
Two, CT isn't only used by Cheat Engine(and I'm almost positive that even if it was Dark Byte hasn't registered a copyright for it).
How do you know it’s not registered? You know Darkbyte personally or maybe know where he lives so you checked what’s registered in that country? Or you just assumed it?

I’m not a programmer but google tells me this.
What is a CT file?

File created by Cheat Engine, an open source program used to create "cheats," or modifications, to Windows-based games; contains game overrides and their address locations within the target program; allows users to edit game properties, such as numbers of lives, high scores, and units of health.
Provide please example of other programs using it?
SinStar87 post_id=3688 time=1491197643 user_id=1910 said:
Four, what does photoshop charging for their product or Asure Software suing over ownership ofJPEG have to do with requiring their permission for anything you make with it, as you suggested doing with Cheat Engine?
CE is open source while Adobe Photoshop CC is not. CE is free Adobe Photoshop CC is not. CE and CT is a work of one creator Adobe Photoshop CC and supported formats are not. Also most/all (not going to waste all day researching this) formats Adobe Photoshop CC provides are free to use in commercial purposes. To keep it simple if format goes under “Prior art” or any such thing you are free to use it. If you started selling your jpg artwork and obviously make money from it in 2002 you would get sued that’s all.
SinStar87 post_id=3688 time=1491197643 user_id=1910 said:
Three, it's only a text file with another extension that Cheat Engine is designed to recognize and as far as I can tell it uses xml code.
Any code is made of text, format is what matters here.
SinStar87 post_id=3688 time=1491197643 user_id=1910 said:
I'm against blanket bans of paid content(which has been brought up was against Dark Byte's policy on his forums since he allowed them) but have no problem with the rules brought up earlier to control advertising.
Those rules were made for selling trainers not tables. I have never saw someone trying so sell a table at all.
SinStar87 post_id=3688 time=1491197643 user_id=1910 said:
It'd be great if Dark Byte got a cut from it but that's not the world we live in.
Why not? We can make this a reality at least on this forum.
SinStar87 post_id=3688 time=1491197643 user_id=1910 said:
Dark Byte can register a copyright of the code structure and send CNDs and/or sue for damages if he likes. Until then it's free for anyone to use.
Now this is the real gold here. Basically stealing is fine until you are caught red-handed.
If one day Darkbyte stops CE development it would be because of people like you, who try to justify ripping him off in any way they can.
SinStar87 post_id=3688 time=1491197643 user_id=1910 said:
As I said, your suggestion is no different from what's caused this situation that has Dark Byte banning cheats from his forum.
Care to explain how? I want to relay some money/support for continuation of development of CE. What is your objective then?
 
Apr 2, 2017
35
0
6
#20
Source code Darkbyte provides does not have license agreement too. So If I type “Hello world” somewhere in there I can sell CE?
Point 1, You don't even need to add hello world, there's plenty of sites selling CE right now. It's common enough that Dark Byte has it in the CE faq. It's not legal but if he doesn't fight it they get away with it.
How do you know it’s not registered? You know Darkbyte personally or maybe know where he lives so you checked what’s registered in that country? Or you just assumed it?
Point 2, as I said I'm almost positive.
Provide please example of other programs using it?
Point 3, http://file.org/extension/ct atleast 4 other uses for it.
The .ct file extension is also used for IRIS CT image format files, SciTex continuous Tone bitmap image (32bit CMYK) files, Contone printer files and CTwin project files.
Get better sources.
CE is open source while Adobe Photoshop CC is not. CE is free Adobe Photoshop CC is not. CE and CT is a work of one creator Adobe Photoshop CC and supported formats are not. Also most/all (not going to waste all day researching this) formats Adobe Photoshop CC provides are free to use in commercial purposes. To keep it simple if format goes under “Prior art” or any such thing you are free to use it. If you started selling your jpg artwork and obviously make money from it in 2002 you would get sued that’s all.
Point 4, again what's that have to do with anything? you feel that since someone made the program that anyone who uses said program needs the maker's permission for their work with it. It establishes precedent, if you think it should work that way for one then you have to expect it to work that way for all.
Any code is made of text, format is what matters here.
Point 5, and? He didn't invent a new language to make it so his claim would only be for the structure of the code.
Those rules were made for selling trainers not tables. I have never saw someone trying so sell a table at all.
Point 6, ok?
Why not? We can make this a reality at least on this forum.
Point 7, if they try to enforce that noone who creates paid content will post here and that's effectively a ban.
Now this is the real gold here. Basically stealing is fine until you are caught red-handed.
Point 8, congrats you now know how law works.
If one day Darkbyte stops CE development it would be because of people like you, who try to justify ripping him off in any way they can.
Point 9, I'm quite sure if he stops developing it it'll be because he's no longer interested in doing so. He's never charged for the program as far as I'm aware so I see it as a labor of love, I'd be genuinely amazed if he's getting anything noteworthy from donations.
Care to explain how? I want to relay some money/support for continuation of development of CE. What is your objective then?
Point 10, Dark Byte received a CnD because someone felt he contributed to violation of their IP Rights and protect their income. You want to bring a similar system into this forum for Paid Content to protect Dark Byte's IP Rights and his income.
My only problem would be if the admins pushed for one or the other.
I'm not big on over stepping authority or censorship. I think the admin and moderator's duty is to keep things civil, not control content.
 
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